Jessica (galfridian) wrote in sheldon_penny,

Episode Discussion - 7.18 - The Mommy Observation

Yes, we've omitted the banner and description this week. We hope that caught your attention, because we have a TWO-PART announcement:

FIRST: We will NOT debate the rule against character/pairing bashing anymore.

From the looks of the last few discussion posts, it seems some of you still do not understand why we have this rule, so we'll make one last attempt to explain.

This is a community for ANYONE who ships Sheldon/Penny. This is not a community for JUST people who ship Sheldon/Penny exclusively. This is not a community for people who JUST like Sheldon and Penny. This is a community for ANYONE who ships Sheldon/Penny, even if isn't their OTP; even if they also ship Leonard/Penny or Sheldon/Amy; and even if they like Leonard Hofstadter.

Therefore, any person who comes to Paradox should be able to enjoy the community without seeing other characters or pairings they like ignorantly bashed. If a Sheldon/Penny shipper happens to like Amy Farrah Fowler, they have the right to come here and not find comments like "Amy is so ugly." Comments like that are gross, regardless of who they're in reference to, and they discourage intelligent discourse.

We know some of the favored objections to this rule. Allow us to address those objections.
  1. We are not impeding your free speech. We are asking that you exercise your right to free speech with courtesy. (Besides, free speech is defined as the right to communicate feelings and ideas to anyone willing to hear them. We think it's safe to assume that your fellow Sheldon/Penny shippers aren't interested in your hate-on for other characters/pairings they like.)

  2. We don't care about the Sheldon/Penny bashing you've witnessed elsewhere on the Internet. Spoiler alert: We've seen it too, and we don't like it anymore than you do, but we don't control the whole Internet. We control Paradox. Yeah, it sucks that it happens, and yeah, people can have pretty cruel opinions of the pairing or of us. But using someone else's behavior to justify your own is childish.

  3. Forbidding character/pairing bashing does not create a hostile environment. Do you know what does create a hostile environment? Coming here and bashing something, despite knowing full-well that it's against the rules. Here's what that accomplishes: It pisses off the people who make the rules. It pisses off the people who follow the rules, even when they'd like to bash something. And it pisses off the people who like the thing that was bashed. Then people react negatively to the bashing, which somehow comes across as the basher being oppressed.

As we've said time and time again, it's okay to dislike a character or pairing. (It's okay to hate a character or pairing!) It's also okay to express your feelings or opinions.

It's NOT okay to express your feelings or opinions in a way that is plainly and utterly insulting. We want Paradox to be a place of intelligent discourse, a place where people can debate whether Plot Twist X was great or horrible, a place where members can constructively criticize this series as it progresses.

But intelligent discourse does not happen when a comment begins "Amy is so ugly" or "I wish Leonard would die." Going into detail about how ugly Amy is or how much Leonard needs to die is STILL not encouraging of intelligent conversation.

A couple examples of what would be better:

"I'm just not feeling this whole Sheldon and Amy thing. I don't think they are right for each other, and Sheldon can't really give her what she wants. And I'm just not a fan of Amy's character on the whole."


"I really didn't like when Leonard said _______ or did ________. It makes him look insensitive/sexist/mean/whatever."

We still get the point (that the poster does not like Leonard or Sheldon/Amy), but look, no one was insulted in the process!

So allow us to summarize this for you:

Having opinions: excellent.

Expression opinions civilly: excellent.

Expressing opinions uncivilly: not excellent.

How to have respectful conversations about the show: opinions stated with courtesy and with deeper thought than just "wow so ugly" or "omg so stupid."

How to not have respectful conversations about the show: bash characters or pairings, because other people are doing it, so that's okay, right?

SECOND: From this point forward, we will ban anyone who still doesn't understand this rule. We will also ban anyone who still wants to argue with this about this rule. We won't ban first offenses, but please believe we're keeping an eye on things, and we will not hesitate to do what is necessary to make this a more comfortable place.

If you have a problem with what's been said here, there are other places you can go. We're sorry it's more important to you to bash something than it is to be courteous to other people, but that's on you, not us.
Tags: !moderator posts, discussion: episodes, tbbt: 7.18 - tmo
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No one commented yet? Guess don't gave to worry about bashing, lol.

I laughed when the girls asks Leonard and Lenny they didn't talk about their future, that would require them to talk and not have sex every 5 seconds and seriously Stuart hit his head while pretending to be dead if they're the best couple he knows even if he only hangs out with the group.

Sheldon trying to give his mom the sex talk was actually funny.
I really enjoyed the Sheldon/Mary/Howard plot line. I like how Howard seems to really be trying to nurture his friendship with Sheldon, whereas before his superpower was "to pretend to give a crap about [Sheldon's] piddly-ass problems."

What I liked a lot less was Stuart's assessment of L/P. When he said that they "make each other better" and that Penny brought Leonard "out of his shell" and he had made her start to think more deeply about things, all I could say was, "No, I think you're thinking of Sheldon and Penny." We've seen it since Season 1. I honestly shudder to think what these writers will do with three more seasons.
That's the problem I have with Stuart's assessment of Lenny as well. If the show has to tell us that Lenny makes each other better, I am concerned as to whether Lenny really make each other better when we haven't seen it as much.
All the Chuck/Lorre productions seem guilty of this. Seems they'd rather tell us "X is so great" than show X doing...literally anything great. The thing is, I could probably like Leonard/Penny (not love, never actually ship, but accept) if they'd give us a little more depth with them.
Agree, they never shows us, why they're good for each other or why they should be together. I'll agree she helped him come out of his shell, but disagree with his assessment of Penny.
Kind of sad that a show has to tell you than show you.
The Golden rule "Show us what you tell us" is appropriate here.

Just because they say something through the characters doesn't make me buy it.

Leonard and Penny did have some great moment a long ago. Back when their conflict didn't smell like the writers were trying really hard to make us think they were meant to each other.

The worst thing you can do is to not let your character write itself. And then doing it a disservice by worsening them rather than make them grow.

I mean sure maybe Leonard become more outgoing (on the surface) and Penny started thinking deeper about the world (on the surface). I just don't see how that translates to the implications behind Stuart's words.

I spent the entire episode wanting to hug Stuart, but that's probably not news.

This episode only reinforced my total love of Mary Cooper. Sure, her religion's not my religion, but the fact that she acknowledged that she's struggling with the conflict between her religious beliefs and her natural desires? That was hella awesome and real and I approve immensely.
Only 9 comments what's going on, have we given up?